Host – Kylie Sultana (00:08):
Okay, so hi Jen. Thank you so much for joining me here today.
Jen Webster (00:15):
Thanks for having me.
Host – Kylie Sultana (00:15):
You are most welcome. I was really excited, especially when you said you wanted a glass of prosecco, so I’m-
Jen Webster (00:21):
Absolutely.
Host – Kylie Sultana (00:23):
You’re my first guest that has requested some prosecco, so I love it.
Jen Webster (00:26):
Awesome.
Host – Kylie Sultana (00:27):
But I’m sticking to the soda water because I have more [inaudible 00:00:31] today.
Jen Webster (00:30):
You’ve got a long day ahead.
Host – Kylie Sultana (00:32):
I’ve got a long day ahead, so I better not, and I’ve not eaten anything. So we know what happens when we don’t eat and we drink, so it’s not pretty. So we’ll avoid that at all costs. So Jen, you are CEO of MindFlare, which is a psychology practice.
Jen Webster (00:46):
Yes.
Host – Kylie Sultana (00:46):
Tell me a little bit about that. How was that born? What was the concept behind that?
Jen Webster (00:50):
Yeah, so we, Mark, my husband is a psychologist and we came up with this idea to change the industry. Everyone gets into the industry after uni and wants to change the world, but the way psychologists get registered or used to get registered is they would often work for two years for free, which for us-
Host – Kylie Sultana (01:14):
For free? Okay. Gosh. Okay.
Jen Webster (01:15):
For free. Yeah. And it’s quite a lot of work too. And so a APRA require you to have a certain amount of hours a week and you’ve got to do your extra work on top of that. So most job offerings were for free and you had to pay for supervision.
Host – Kylie Sultana (01:32):
So not only were you working for free, you had to pay someone to supervise you.
Jen Webster (01:37):
Yeah.
Host – Kylie Sultana (01:37):
Wow. Okay. That’s interesting.
Jen Webster (01:39):
And it becomes very expensive. So a lot of psych students who want to be a psychologist can’t actually afford to. So a lot of people were stuck with their degree and that’s as far as they went.
Host – Kylie Sultana (01:49):
And then you’ve got your HECS debt from the degree
Jen Webster (01:51):
Absolutely. That you then have to pay off as you go.
Host – Kylie Sultana (01:54):
Exactly. Yeah. Wow.
Jen Webster (01:54):
Exactly. So it was brutal. And we had this idea that I think we could do it better. So we started off in our garage with just a few clients and we built up-
Host – Kylie Sultana (02:06):
So you’re the Steve Jobs of psychology. I love it. Starting in the garage.
Jen Webster (02:11):
Yeah. And I mean, it was a very simple model. We started in the garage and I had a newborn at the time and I didn’t know I was going to be working with Mark. We just thought we’d start and see how we’d go. He built up a fantastic client base. He did a lot of home visit models, because a lot of clients weren’t able to come to a clinic and we wanted to make it really accessible for everyone. So we had a home-based and garage model and we built from there and we got our first employees and it just sort of went from there.
Host – Kylie Sultana (02:42):
Yeah, exciting. So tell me about working with a newborn. Building a business with a newborn, I mean, I couldn’t even cope a newborn staying at home as a stay at home mom, how did you do that?
Jen Webster (02:53):
Look, it was rough. I came from a background of corporate, so I had 10 years of very fast-paced, high marketing, and then to sort of come into a startup where there was no marketing budget. And in fact, APRA are very strict on what you’re allowed to do in marketing.
Host – Kylie Sultana (03:09):
Yeah. Because you guys can’t have referrals either, can you?
Jen Webster (03:12):
You can have referrals. You just can’t convince people they need your services. So we’re in a duty of care relationship, obviously there. So you’ve got to be very careful how you present yourself and you’re not allowed to make yourself sound better than what you actually are, so you can’t talk yourself up.
Host – Kylie Sultana (03:27):
That’s fair.
Jen Webster (03:27):
Yeah, yeah.
Host – Kylie Sultana (03:28):
That’s fair. That’s fair.
Jen Webster (03:29):
Yeah.
Host – Kylie Sultana (03:30):
So tell me about now working with Mark. What was the thought process behind that? Did you kind of sit down together and say, okay, we’re going to work together? Here’s the ground rules, here are the limits. Was there any conversation or was it just kind of, yep, let’s do it, and you just dove in?
Jen Webster (03:47):
So I think coming back to when I had the newborn, I was still on mat leave and I was working a bit for free with him just to help him out. Mark had never worked in business before. His background is he was an elite figure skater.
Host – Kylie Sultana (04:03):
An elite figure skater?
Jen Webster (04:04):
He was olympic level.
Host – Kylie Sultana (04:06):
Ice or roller? Please say roller skating.
Jen Webster (04:07):
No ice, better.
Host – Kylie Sultana (04:09):
[inaudible 00:04:10].
Jen Webster (04:10):
Ice is better. But he was a very high-end athlete for most of his life. So coming into the business world was very new to him. He’s a therapist first and foremost. So with my kind of background, that helped Mark out a lot, but I sort of had to decide for myself after my mat leave was finished, do I want to go back to corporate or do we want to start something new? And we decided, okay, look, let’s give it a go. If it’s terrible, we’ll leave it alone. We won’t touch it again.
Host – Kylie Sultana (04:42):
Were you still married, right?
Jen Webster (04:43):
Yeah, we were still married.
Host – Kylie Sultana (04:47):
And how long ago was this? When did the business start?
Jen Webster (04:48):
So this would’ve been about seven years ago.
Host – Kylie Sultana (04:51):
And you’re still married, so that’s good.
Jen Webster (04:52):
We’re still married.
Host – Kylie Sultana (04:53):
That’s good. And the newborn’s seven now?
Jen Webster (04:54):
Yes, yes. She’s almost six. Yeah.
Host – Kylie Sultana (04:57):
Okay. So yeah, things get a little easier as they get older.
Jen Webster (05:00):
Yeah.
Host – Kylie Sultana (05:00):
They get different. Well actually not easier. It’s just a little different.
Jen Webster (05:05):
I think people get better at adapting.
Host – Kylie Sultana (05:07):
They do.
Jen Webster (05:07):
To different lifestyles. So we’ve learned how to adapt especially to each other in the workplace. So that, as you said, was a bit of an adjustment and we did have those conversations, but we continue to have those conversations. I have a very set way of working and Mark has a very set way of working.
Host – Kylie Sultana (05:24):
It’s interesting, isn’t it? Yeah, because I work with Anthony as you know. And you actually only just realised the other day that we were a couple.
Jen Webster (05:30):
Yeah, we didn’t even realise.
Host – Kylie Sultana (05:33):
It was really weird at that networking function. And he was standing next to me and I’m like, “This is Anthony.” And then you were like, “Oh, you’re a couple. This is your … Yeah, yeah.”
Jen Webster (05:44):
It clicked. It clicked.
Host – Kylie Sultana (05:47):
So sorry, going back to working as a couple. So when it came to budget budgets, you had no marketing budget. So who in the business looks after all of the money? Do you sit down together and go through all of the figures?
Jen Webster (06:01):
Yeah.
Host – Kylie Sultana (06:02):
You’re constantly looking at all of that and trying to improve … Obviously we’re in business to make money, right?
Jen Webster (06:08):
Yeah.
Host – Kylie Sultana (06:09):
So do you sit down and plan where you want to go with the business? Tell me about that process.
Jen Webster (06:13):
Yeah. So at first it was a little bit, I think we were a little bit more focused on people and once COVID hit, it got very, I think this happened with a lot of businesses. You go into survival mode, there’s not really much room for planning because you do something and then something happens, someone resigns or the government puts a restriction in the zones. We opened Oren Park and we couldn’t even go there because we’re in a different zone.
Host – Kylie Sultana (06:45):
Oh wow.
Jen Webster (06:45):
So all the construction industry shut down as we were about to do the fit out. So there was a lot of reactive type of behaviours that were going on. And for us financially, we had to sort of go with the flow a lot. And that was rough because personally I’m a planner and we also were still learning more and more about business. So putting money aside for things for taxes and even land tax and tax you didn’t even know, payroll tax and things you didn’t know that existed.
Host – Kylie Sultana (07:15):
It’s a bit of a shock, isn’t it? It’s like holy moly.
Jen Webster (07:18):
And they’re not always as friendly. The government aren’t always as friendly.
Host – Kylie Sultana (07:22):
They want their money, they want money.
Jen Webster (07:25):
They want money.
Host – Kylie Sultana (07:25):
And they want their money. And they charge like [inaudible 00:07:27]. The interest is pretty intense.
Jen Webster (07:29):
Oh yes. It’s brutal. So I think having good accountants in your court is really good, but also not being afraid about talking about money. So if you are stressed, we both got to a point in the business where we were like, we’ve never dealt with this much money before. What do we do? And so we started enlisting more professional financial help because it’s a big responsibility.
Host – Kylie Sultana (07:52):
And you feel like that kind of takes a load off your mental load as well when you’ve got somebody else to kind of take care of it. And I know even just for us getting someone … I mean, we don’t have an awful lot of accounts to match and stuff in QuickBooks or whatever it is, but just having someone to do that, it’s like that’s one little thing that I don’t have to worry about. And it’s like that one mental thing that it’s like I don’t even have to think about it. So going back to COVID, after COVID, did you find that you had a lot of people coming to the practise needing help because they were stressed over different things, like developed anxiety or some sort of depression or some sort of mental health issue?
Jen Webster (08:30):
I think for clients, and Mark probably would be a better one to ask for this one, but I think for clients what we saw was a longer effect. So it wasn’t straight after COVID. It wasn’t until they started trying to adjust back to school, they started trying to adjust back to work and going between jobs and then the interest rates rising. I think once some of the other factors a little bit later hit, especially with the fires and the floods, people were still in the midst of it.
Host – Kylie Sultana (08:59):
Because it all happened, didn’t it?
Jen Webster (09:00):
That’s right.
Host – Kylie Sultana (09:00):
We had those big bushfires. And then I think it was that January we had COVID and it was, it’s like, hello, surprise.
Jen Webster (09:07):
How much more can we take?
Host – Kylie Sultana (09:08):
Yeah. Yeah. COVID was like, hang on, bushfires, oh my, we’ll really screw this up for you.
Jen Webster (09:14):
Yeah.
Host – Kylie Sultana (09:15):
Yeah, it was insane.
Jen Webster (09:16):
So for clients, I think it was that, but our biggest hurdle I think was actually our therapists because they were burnt out. COVID was rough. We had very difficult work circumstances to navigate constantly and it kept changing. And that’s sort of how do you give help to the help, which was a constant problem. Where does the psych go, except to other psychs. There’s not much help or support there. And I think it would’ve been lovely to see the government support that a little bit more.
Host – Kylie Sultana (09:52):
Yeah, that’s interesting, isn’t it? Where does the help go for help? Really interesting.
Jen Webster (09:55):
So how do we keep that workforce going?
Host – Kylie Sultana (09:58):
Yeah, I like that. And that comes back down to workplace culture as well. So you guys obviously care about your people and try to get them help, which I really love. We’re kind of the same with money as well, trying to help our people. So we’ve talked about money in business. I want to delve a little bit into money in the personal space.
Jen Webster (10:17):
Go for it.
Host – Kylie Sultana (10:19):
So you are a planner?
Jen Webster (10:20):
Yes.
Host – Kylie Sultana (10:21):
Yeah. And what would you say Mark’s money, personality is. You like to plan, so does that mean you’re a saver? Do you save, you like to sort of … Okay, can I say this? Mark’s in the room watching and he just gave a little scoff.
Jen Webster (10:36):
I’m not a spender, but I also don’t care much about money. And that’s part of our personal difficulty. I don’t really care. Mark is very much a dollar for the dollar. He likes knowing that where he’s put his money, it’s well spent or he’s earning what he needs to. He’s more financially, I guess, inclined I suppose you could call it. So he is good at maths and he likes chasing the dollar. So if he has a way of making a system that makes a fantastic incentive for our employees, he’s all over it. He is amazing at it. Me, I don’t care about money.
Host – Kylie Sultana (11:15):
So you just spend it. You don’t really care.
Jen Webster (11:18):
If I need it, I need I.t if I don’t, whatever.
Host – Kylie Sultana (11:21):
So how does that go? Do you sit down and plan budgets? Do you sit down and set financial goals Personally? We know you do for the business, but personally do you sit down and say, okay, this is where we want to be in 5, 10, 15, 20 years?
Jen Webster (11:34):
I think we’ve got loose goals, but I think since COVID it got really hard because personally we had to keep re-funding our business. And anywhere where we were lacking, all of our personal savings would go straight into it because we wanted to keep afloat.
Host – Kylie Sultana (11:49):
Of course.
Jen Webster (11:50):
So it was very hard from that point of view to plan. But things like holidays, we got better this year. So we went on a holiday to America. That’s the first time in a while we’ve actually been on a proper holiday.
Host – Kylie Sultana (12:03):
Oh, nice. Where did you go?
Jen Webster (12:05):
So we went to LA and then to Boston and New York.
Host – Kylie Sultana (12:08):
Very nice. And how long for?
Jen Webster (12:11):
Just about a month I think it was.
Host – Kylie Sultana (12:13):
Yeah. Nice. Yeah. When was that?
Jen Webster (12:14):
April.
Host – Kylie Sultana (12:15):
Oh, jealous. Yeah. I do love America. It’s very different.
Jen Webster (12:18):
[inaudible 00:12:19].
Host – Kylie Sultana (12:18):
I love how you can go from one town to the next and it’s like a whole different culture. You drive an hour and it’s completely different.
Jen Webster (12:25):
Yeah. And it’s completely different to the last time I was there I think was maybe 2007, where the cost of living wasn’t so crazy that they had a higher dollar, obviously. And cost of living now, it was very expensive. I wouldn’t recommend it for a little while for most people.
Host – Kylie Sultana (12:42):
Yeah. Because the dollar’s not so great now, is it?
Jen Webster (12:44):
No, no.
Host – Kylie Sultana (12:44):
And I mean-
Jen Webster (12:46):
And they tax for everything.
Host – Kylie Sultana (12:48):
Yeah, they do. So I found over there that because the wage is so low over there, the tipping is really high.
Jen Webster (12:55):
It is.
Host – Kylie Sultana (12:56):
And they really expect to tip.
Jen Webster (12:57):
They do.
Host – Kylie Sultana (12:58):
If you don’t tip over there, we’ve had people on holidays because the service was bad, we didn’t tip, they follow you out and abuse you. I was like-
Jen Webster (13:05):
We didn’t get any of those, but we were-
Host – Kylie Sultana (13:07):
Give me good service, man, and I’m happy to give you a tip, but you just ignored us the whole … But anyway.
Jen Webster (13:10):
We weren’t used to the tipping though. We really struggled. So we’d start the tipping, very generous. And then we kind of had to scale back. We were like, uh-oh we’re running out of money.
Host – Kylie Sultana (13:20):
I actually think that’s something that a lot of people don’t factor into their holiday budget.
Jen Webster (13:24):
It’s quite a bit.
Host – Kylie Sultana (13:25):
Is tipping. You’ve got to really allow for that. And a lot of countries do that now, like tipping. So tip for listeners, America, the tipping, I think it’s about 15% now.
Jen Webster (13:35):
Yeah, 15.
Host – Kylie Sultana (13:35):
I expect 15.
Jen Webster (13:36):
15 to 20.
Host – Kylie Sultana (13:37):
If it’s okay service 20, 25, if it’s really good.
Jen Webster (13:40):
And then New York has taxes for every night you stay as well on top of that.
Host – Kylie Sultana (13:44):
They do. Yes. Yeah, we’ve been somewhere recently and they had taxes, like resort taxes or something. It’s like seriously? So yes, talking about the relationship. So I want to touch a little bit on retirement. So it’s the Money Brew and Creo Wealth, we’re financial advisors. I want to know if you guys contribute to your superannuation. Because I know a lot of self-employed people or people that run businesses themselves, they often forget to pay themselves superannuation. So I really want to make sure you guys are doing that. Don’t have to say if you don’t want.
Jen Webster (14:17):
Oh no, no. We definitely pay ourselves super.
Host – Kylie Sultana (14:19):
Good, good.
Jen Webster (14:19):
I think we owe ourselves a little bit of super at the moment for cashflow, but that’s fairly normal, especially coming out of COVID. You have a choice to make of, do you pay your employees or yourself?
Host – Kylie Sultana (14:29):
Exactly.
Jen Webster (14:29):
And nine times out of 10, the money will always go to the employees.
Host – Kylie Sultana (14:34):
Always. Yeah. And I’m not going to lie, we’ve had the same issues as well. And the employees always get paid first.
Jen Webster (14:41):
Absolutely.
Host – Kylie Sultana (14:42):
We get paid a little later in the month when more money comes in and the cashflow flow’s a bit better.
Jen Webster (14:45):
And we just have to save according to that. So a lot of the last past year especially, we had to quite a bit of, in the first few years of tax, you have a bit of catch up to do and learning.
Host – Kylie Sultana (14:57):
Yes, you do.
Jen Webster (14:57):
And once they get processed, they expect the money there and then. So we’ve had to sort of practise putting aside a little bit of money so that if we can’t pay ourselves, we have enough to carry us through.
Host – Kylie Sultana (15:06):
That is a real shock, isn’t it?
Jen Webster (15:07):
Yeah.
Host – Kylie Sultana (15:08):
When you start a business and you have employees and you’ve got to pay that payroll tax and all the, you’re like-
Jen Webster (15:13):
[inaudible 00:15:14].
Host – Kylie Sultana (15:14):
That’s a lot of money. Do I really have to give you? That’s kind of like that. Have you ever seen that movie Ghost, Whoopi Goldberg and she’s got the check and she’s like handing it over. It’s like, I don’t want to give it to you. Yeah.
Jen Webster (15:26):
It’s exactly how it feels.
Host – Kylie Sultana (15:27):
It hurts. It stings. It stings. So going back to the practise and with money and mental health. So as you know, we had a blog come out recently, Money and Mental Health and it’s often struggles that we don’t talk about. So while I’m trying to take the taboo out of talking about money, I guess you guys are trying to take the taboo out of talking about mental health.
Jen Webster (15:48):
Yeah, absolutely.
Host – Kylie Sultana (15:49):
What are some things that people can do if they’re struggling at the moment, particularly with money around that sort of thing. What sort of help can they get and what sort of strategies can they put in place to kind of ease that pain?
Jen Webster (16:02):
Absolutely. I think one of the things you touched on that I really loved in your blog was having the honest conversation. That is the biggest first step because that sort of opens the doors to telling people, hey, I actually need help. I’m not sure what to do. I feel like the walls are tumbling in around me. What do I do here? And I think that then opens the door to seeking help from people like yourselves, financial planners, but also if it’s affecting your mental health, absolutely mental health professionals.
(16:35):
So having a chat to your GP or talking to a psychologist. So you can, most psychology practises, you can do private fees as well. So you don’t have to go through a mental health care plan. There’s lots of options there. But even if you’re of a younger age group, you can talk to places like Headspace where you can talk about if you’re struggling or your parents are struggling and you’re just not really sure what to do. Reaching out to professional help is a really good first step. And then making sure that you’re investing in your mental health is actually reaching out to people really, isn’t it?
Host – Kylie Sultana (17:11):
It is. It is. And I like that you said your GP, but … Well, I’m happy to share. So menopausal, right?
Jen Webster (17:19):
Yes.
Host – Kylie Sultana (17:19):
So I’m 52 years old, so I started menopause quite a few years ago. So deep in the depths of it. But you kind of notice in menopause that things are changing. I don’t know if you see people in menopause at the practise.
Jen Webster (17:31):
Yep. Always.
Host – Kylie Sultana (17:32):
But you notice things are changing and you just so cranky all the time and you can see the effect it has on those around you. So I was desperately going to doctor after doctor trying to get answers and so many doctors just said to me, “Oh, it’s just women’s business, you just need to deal with it.”
Jen Webster (17:45):
Oh no.
Host – Kylie Sultana (17:46):
And even female doctors were telling me that.
Jen Webster (17:48):
Oh no.
Host – Kylie Sultana (17:49):
But I finally found a doctor, so now she’s given me some medication. I’ve kind of gone through all of that with her and sleep was actually a big thing that was affecting, I wasn’t sleeping well.
Jen Webster (18:00):
Oh yes. Sleep and diet. 100%.
Host – Kylie Sultana (18:02):
So I was sleeping, but I wasn’t getting into that REM sleep. So we’ve addressed that now. So I like to think my moods are a little better, but it’s just that keep searching. So if anyone’s listening, there’s help out there, but you’ve got to keep searching.
Jen Webster (18:15):
Absolutely. [inaudible 00:18:16].
Host – Kylie Sultana (18:16):
Because the first person you talk to, yeah. And I knew there was something wrong I said, and I just kept going to doctor after, but I finally found one now that’s quite good. So I catch up with her every six months, so that’s really good.
Jen Webster (18:26):
Absolutely. And look, it’s the same with clinicians. If they’re not quite filling the need that you have or you’re not quite clicking with them, that’s totally fine. Keep looking. I mean, I know it’s really difficult at the moment. Psychs are few and far between and it’s very difficult to get into one. But don’t be afraid to keep looking while you are continuing service somewhere, because if it’s really not suiting your lifestyle or what you need, keep reaching out.
Host – Kylie Sultana (18:52):
Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for that. So Jen, to finish off, tell us about the kind of people that you, can we talk about that, the kind of people that you see in the practise and what you specialise in? So if anybody’s listening, they know what your specialty is and to reach out and come and see you, we’ll have all of your links and everything on the post.
Jen Webster (19:12):
Yeah, absolutely. I mean we specialise in all walks of life really. We do see quite a lot of disability. I’m very proud to see that Penrith are very disability advocates.
Host – Kylie Sultana (19:24):
Yes. I’ve noticed that actually.
Jen Webster (19:27):
And it’s very different to the rest of Sydney. So I think from that point of view, we are specialists in that area, especially neurodiversity affirming practises.
Host – Kylie Sultana (19:36):
I love it.
Jen Webster (19:37):
But most age groups, so we have, I think some of our oldest clients are well and truly in their seniors, and some of our youngest are three. So we have quite a range of people just coming for general mental health, but also other issues, things like phobias, we often have, especially coming out of COVID, a lot of anxiety, a lot of anxiety with children. We’ve had kids that are afraid of the flushing of a toilet. Just different behaviours that parents aren’t sure how to navigate.
Host – Kylie Sultana (20:10):
Wow, that’s interesting.
Jen Webster (20:11):
And we just help them through that sort of period so they’re able to thrive at school.
Host – Kylie Sultana (20:15):
Yeah. It’s interesting you say a lot of anxiety through COVID because even now it’s like I can’t be going out. Do we really have to get dressed and leave the house? Can’t be bothered.
Jen Webster (20:25):
Yeah, I think all feel that. Yeah.
Host – Kylie Sultana (20:26):
I think we all feel that. Yeah, I know. But I have been dragging myself out lately and it does make you feel a little bit better. I think exercise as well is good for mental health.
Jen Webster (20:33):
Absolutely. So that-
Host – Kylie Sultana (20:35):
Getting out, going for that daily walk, even if it’s just a five, 10 minute walk, get a bit of air is really good.
Jen Webster (20:39):
Yep, yep. Alongside that dietary that you were talking about and sleep. Sleep, diet, exercise.
Host – Kylie Sultana (20:44):
Oh, sleep is a killer.
Jen Webster (20:45):
Game changer. And kids are no different.
Host – Kylie Sultana (20:47):
Yeah, exactly.
Jen Webster (20:48):
I think we’re so busy we forget that those three factors are actually impacting how their behaviour is.
Host – Kylie Sultana (20:53):
Yeah. Yeah. Well thank you so much for joining me today, Jen.
Jen Webster (20:56):
Thank you.
Host – Kylie Sultana (20:57):
It’s been very insightful. I loved hearing all about your relationship with Mark and about the practise, of course. It’s really wonderful to see a neurodiverse.
Jen Webster (21:06):
It’s a hard one to say, isn’t it? Neurodiverse.
Host – Kylie Sultana (21:13):
Oh gosh. Especially when I can hear my stomach growling at me. So thank you so much and let’s just have a little cheers.
Jen Webster (21:18):
Oh yes.
Host – Kylie Sultana (21:19):
Cheers. Cheers. So Jen loves her bubbles I know I’m having soda water.
Jen Webster (21:22):
Absolutely.
Host – Kylie Sultana (21:22):
So yeah.
Jen Webster (21:25):
Thank you so much for having me.
Host – Kylie Sultana (21:27):
Oh, you’re so welcome. Thank you.
Jen Webster (21:27):
Any opportunity to talk about mental health and money.
Host – Kylie Sultana (21:30):
Yeah, absolutely.
Jen Webster (21:31):
I think it’s such, like you said, a very taboo subject at times.
Host – Kylie Sultana (21:34):
It is.
Jen Webster (21:35):
And I think it’s important that people understand the reality of it and it’s okay to talk about it.
Host – Kylie Sultana (21:40):
And you don’t really realise. So had a family member whose brother passed away from mental health issues. So he’d just come out of a rehab … Well a rehab, it might’ve been a rehab because I think he was a substance abuser as well. But yeah, they thought he was fine. And then next day they were getting calls from the police saying that he was gone.
Jen Webster (22:08):
Absolutely.
Host – Kylie Sultana (22:09):
And I’ve got my nephew, he’s mental health issues. I’m always getting messages from my sister saying he’s not answering his phone. I’m really worried, I’m going to have to go over there. Yeah. And I mean even our own experience with our son going through teens.
Jen Webster (22:26):
Absolutely.
Host – Kylie Sultana (22:26):
We really had a rough time.
Jen Webster (22:27):
Even ourselves.
Host – Kylie Sultana (22:30):
All the time, yeah, yeah.
Jen Webster (22:30):
Everyone goes through their own battles and that’s why it’s so important to check in with each other. So not just a mental health professional, but friends and colleagues. You are kind of like my colleague. We are friends in business. I think it’s important to continue to check in with each other. It’s not just, are you okay? Month or such.
Host – Kylie Sultana (22:47):
Or day or whatever it is.
Jen Webster (22:48):
Day or whatever it is. It’s all the time because people go through some serious storms and you need to make sure that you are there and you’re also being honest and saying, “Hey, I’m in the midst of one, someone please help.”
Host – Kylie Sultana (23:00):
Help. Yeah. I’ve actually got a friend that she’s got two young children now, but I knew her before she had children and I have not seen her for ages or heard from her for ages. But every now and then I send her a message and I’m like, “Mate, I know what it’s like with little kids. Are you okay? Are you still there? Do you need coffee or something?” So trying to catch up a few times. And she always says to me, “I really appreciate you sending me that message.”
Jen Webster (23:23):
Absolutely.
Host – Kylie Sultana (23:23):
Because just receiving that message and knowing that there’s someone there I can talk to is really good.
Jen Webster (23:30):
It’s huge. And they’re so stuck in that early years. You get stuck in that kind of zone and you’re not thinking about messaging other people. And when someone does message you, it just, someone’s looking after you for once. You’re not looking after everyone else.
Host – Kylie Sultana (23:46):
Exactly. Yes. Yes. But I mean, back when I was having children, there were no … Were there mobile phones 23 years ago? I don’t know. There were.
Jen Webster (23:55):
- No.
Host – Kylie Sultana (23:56):
Yeah, maybe I did have a mobile. I can’t even remember.
Jen Webster (23:58):
- That’s too early. Oh, no, no. There was.
Host – Kylie Sultana (24:02):
’99. [inaudible 00:24:04].
Jen Webster (24:04):
2000 I was in maybe year five.
Host – Kylie Sultana (24:07):
You were five?
Jen Webster (24:08):
No, I was in year five.
Host – Kylie Sultana (24:08):
[inaudible 00:24:12].
Jen Webster (24:13):
No, year six. I was in year six.
Host – Kylie Sultana (24:13):
[inaudible 00:24:15].
Jen Webster (24:14):
I got my first phone the next year though.
Host – Kylie Sultana (24:17):
Did you?
Jen Webster (24:17):
It was a giant brick that had one line of text that I was allowed to say I missed the bus to my parents if I missed one of three buses.
Host – Kylie Sultana (24:26):
Yeah, maybe I didn’t have a phone. But I do remember Ben, our first child was a little boy, little baby. And I was not coping mentally. And I was just sitting on the lounge comatose with him, and it was a hot day. I remember he was there in his singlet and his nappy, and my husband’s uncle came and knocked on the door and I can’t even remember what happened, but he called my husband on the way back to his car and said, “You need to come home. Kylie’s not well.” But I think it helped that his wife had postnatal depression. So he kind of probably saw that look in my face or something like, something’s not right.
Jen Webster (25:02):
It’s such a rough one.
Host – Kylie Sultana (25:03):
[inaudible 00:25:04].
Jen Webster (25:03):
I’m pretty sure I did. But during COVID it was hard to know. And we were so busy, how do we know? And that’s actually really, that’s an important one too, psychs in their early career when Mark was getting used to it, he got quite desensitised. So you see so much in your clients when your wife says, “Oh, I’m struggling with the baby.” The scale doesn’t seem quite the same and it’s very hard to relate. So that was something we had to really work through because your feelings are still valid.
Host – Kylie Sultana (25:37):
Yeah. Of course they are.
Jen Webster (25:37):
Even if the scale of something else, someone’s always got something worse going on. But to regain that sensitivity is really hard for a psych.
Host – Kylie Sultana (25:45):
Yeah. Well that’s what I always tell the boys. They’re like, “Oh, these sob stories that you see on all the shows.” Like SAS at the moment. They’re like, oh. It’s like, yeah, but it’s all relative. It’s all about perception. To them that’s the worst. It’s all about how it affects somebody.
Jen Webster (26:00):
Absolutely.
Host – Kylie Sultana (26:00):
Just because you think it’s nothing doesn’t mean it’s nothing to them. Everyone’s valid.
Jen Webster (26:03):
It doesn’t mean it’s not important.
Host – Kylie Sultana (26:05):
That’s right. Exactly.
Jen Webster (26:06):
All valid. Right?
Host – Kylie Sultana (26:07):
So it’s still important to them. Yeah. So thank you. We went off on a little bit of a tangent. It was good. It’s always good.
Jen Webster (26:13):
I love tangents.
Host – Kylie Sultana (26:13):
Always good. I love tangents too. Yeah. But yeah, no mental health, it’s something we really need to think about. And combining it with money, interest rate rises. So at the time we’re recording this, the reserve bank’s going to meet next Tuesday. So-
Jen Webster (26:26):
Yes. We’re nervously awaiting.
Host – Kylie Sultana (26:29):
[inaudible 00:26:28]. We are very nervously awaiting. I mean, even us.
Jen Webster (26:31):
It still affects everyone.
Host – Kylie Sultana (26:36):
It affects everyone’s life.
Jen Webster (26:37):
In every scale. And you’ve got to make some hard choices sometimes. And our families out there are making some really tough choices.
Host – Kylie Sultana (26:45):
And I say to Anthony, we’re very fortunate that we have assets we can sell. There’s a lot of people that have nothing and they’re struggling. They’ve got no fall back. At least we’ve got something that we can sell.
Jen Webster (26:56):
Yeah.
Host – Kylie Sultana (26:57):
I’ll sell one of the kids, the dog. Probably wouldn’t wouldn’t get much for her. She’s crazy.
Jen Webster (27:01):
But it’s something.
Host – Kylie Sultana (27:04):
Anyway, Jen, thank you again for coming in to talk to me and we’ll have all those links up for everyone if they want to contact you guys. And yes, don’t be afraid. Get out there. Reach out there is help available.
Jen Webster (27:14):
Absolutely.
Host – Kylie Sultana (27:15):
There most definitely is some help available. And don’t be shy.
Jen Webster (27:18):
Yeah. No, thank you so much, Kylie. It’s been amazing.
Host – Kylie Sultana (27:20):
You’re welcome. Thank you.
Jen Webster (27:22):
Thank you.
